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#32912 - 09/08/07 08:24 AM
Larry Craig...
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intrepid02
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Is gay and needs to admit it to himself and everyone else. If Larry Craig held a press conference and said "I'm gay. I'm sorry for lying to my constituents, the public, and most importantly, my family for all these years" I would move to Idaho to vote for his re-election. (Thus voting for a republican for the first and last time in my life.)
My biggest question from this whole thing is why is the Police Department cracking down on soliciting sex in bathrooms? Is that really all that different than soliciting sex in a bar (a time honored American tradition)?
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#32913 - 09/08/07 09:58 AM
Re: Larry Craig...
[Re: intrepid02]
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Daniel
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My biggest question from this whole thing is why is the Police Department cracking down on soliciting sex in bathrooms? Is that really all that different than soliciting sex in a bar (a time honored American tradition)?
The explanation I've heard is that you wouldn't want to send your kid into a public restroom where two people may be gettin' it on. If solicitation is a precursor to sex in the place, then I could understand it. But if solicitation is just solicitation and the parties then go to a more private location for the main event, then the argument seems weaker to me--and I don't know how the police can tell when solicitation means sex right here right now or when it means "Hey, let's get a room." Is the possibility of the former a justification for criminalizing the latter?
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#32916 - 09/08/07 02:04 PM
Re: Larry Craig...
[Re: intrepid02]
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Daniel
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On a lighter note, from Avenue Q:
here for a live version,
here for a remake with sock puppets, but more intelligible lyrics.
Unfortunately, I suspect that a number of the Senator's constituents don't have the same attitude.
Edited by Daniel (09/08/07 03:14 PM)
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#32919 - 09/08/07 09:45 PM
Re: Larry Craig...
[Re: Daniel]
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intrepid02
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The explanation I've heard is that you wouldn't want to send your kid into a public restroom where two people may be gettin' it on. If solicitation is a precursor to sex in the place, then I could understand it. But if solicitation is just solicitation and the parties then go to a more private location for the main event, then the argument seems weaker to me--and I don't know how the police can tell when solicitation means sex right here right now or when it means "Hey, let's get a room." Is the possibility of the former a justification for criminalizing the latter?
Right, but then why not just bust people for having sex in the men's room if/when that does occur?
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#32994 - 09/11/07 10:18 AM
Re: Larry Craig...
[Re: intrepid02]
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Daniel
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Right, but then why not just bust people for having sex in the men's room if/when that does occur?
A defense lawyer for four others caught in the sting operation agrees with you. From yesterday's New York Times:
"Mr. Dean, the defense lawyer, said, 'My legal argument is: as long as it’s not invading anybody else’s privacy, as long as it’s not causing alarm to other people in the bathroom, and as long as they don’t actually have sex in the bathroom, it’s no crime.'"
Police can pose as prostitutes and nab those who hand over money before any sex occurs because, I believe, the money is sufficient evidence of intent to conduct an illegal act (sex for money). While sex in the bathroom is illegal, it's difficult to draw the analogy that solicitation in the bathroom necessarily constitutes intent to have sex in the bathroom. (The solicitation in the Craig case might be a crime if oral sex and sodomy were illegal, but Minnesota's statute criminalizing these acts was invalidated by a Minnesota court in 2001.) So it seems to me that Mr. Dean has a decent argument.
Craig was also charged with invasion of privacy, to which Dean responds: "There can be no invasion of privacy of a person who is inviting the conduct. The undercover officer, by his own account, sits there in an adjacent stall and signals the person that he wants this contact." This argument seems weaker to me. According to the officer's account, Craig looked at the officer through the crack in the stall door on and off for two minutes, and then initiated the contact; there's nothing to indicate that the officer "invited" such activity. And I don't think very many of us would like to be stared at while sitting on the can.
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#33270 - 09/22/07 08:46 PM
Re: Larry Craig...
[Re: intrepid02]
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Daniel
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In case anyone's still interested, the ACLU backs Craig on free speech grounds. Says ACLU director Anthony Romero: "It is a crime to have sex in public. It is not a crime to propose or solicit sex in public, whether it's in a bar or in a bathroom ... To be able to solicit sex in private, in public spaces, for instance, is constitutionally protected speech."
However, I don't think the speech defense addresses the invasion of privacy charge.
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#33370 - 09/29/07 12:26 PM
Re: Larry Craig...
[Re: intrepid02]
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oenophore
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There's a technical solution to almost any problem.
.........................................................
Airport to Overhaul Men's Room Stalls
By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: September 29, 2007
MINNEAPOLIS, Sept. 28 — Dividers intended to make soliciting sex much more difficult will be added to stalls in two men’s rooms at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport. The metal dividers will fall two or three inches above the floor, an airport spokesman, Patrick Hogan, said Friday. Stall partitions are now a foot off the floor. The two restrooms include the one where Senator Larry E. Craig, Republican of Idaho, was arrested in a sex sting in June. Those two sites have elicited the most complaints regarding sexual activity, Mr. Hogan said. It will cost about $25,000 to buy and install the dividers, he said, calling that “a drop in the bucket” compared with the expense of prosecuting Mr. Craig on a disorderly conduct charge and handling the 40 arrests made in sexual solicitation cases since May.
_________________________
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