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#33488 - 10/05/07 09:38 AM
Re: Better than the P.A.S.?
[Re: d-elvis]
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redtag
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Registered: 06/26/07
Posts: 19
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this and the pas are lame - expensive, bulky, heavy, marketing...make sure you buy your supersafe harness, rangefinder cams, link cams, and color coded biners to go with it...
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#33495 - 10/05/07 10:30 AM
Re: Better than the P.A.S.?
[Re: redtag]
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socialist1
member
Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 120
Loc: New Brunswick, NJ
(128.6.228.195)
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I disagree. It comes in pretty handy in some circumstances and really isnt that bulky. Its all preference though...
As for the Chain Reactor, RG pointed this out in the past. I like the fact that it uses nylon (more durable) and can take a factor two (why you would let this happen is beyond me). Trouble is that they are tough to find.
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#33526 - 10/05/07 11:43 AM
Re: Better than the P.A.S.?
[Re: Dillbag]
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rg@ofmc
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Registered: 12/24/99
Posts: 1697
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
(205.188.117.202)
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this and the pas are lame - expensive, bulky, heavy, marketing...make sure you buy your supersafe harness, rangefinder cams, link cams, and color coded biners to go with it...
When it comes to expensive, bulky, heavy, and overly marketed, I think cams fit the bill to a "T." Unnecessary too---virtually every Gunks route has been done without them. Really lame to have them on your rack.
PS: I do think the supersafe harness concept is pretty lame too.
But the real question is whether it is useful to have some sort of dedicated daisy permantly in place on the harness. Certainly, for cragging, where there is little need for efficiency, no strong argument is possible. On longer routes, many experienced climbers who are not in the habit of embracing lame extras have found them to be a good thing. (Read, for example, Mark Twight's Extreme Alpinism.) An instantly available tether speeds up multipitch climbing and is, of course, very handy if not essential for multiple rappel descents.
So if, for some reason, a dedicated daisy is a good thing, it seems pretty dumb to me to use something that will break in a factor-two fall when there are alternatives that won't. Of course, one can argue, with some justification, that a climber should never put themselves into a position where they might a fall (rather than just hang) on their daisy, but if you do enough multiple rappels, you will sooner or later find you have to move above the anchor for some reason, typically to dismantle a back-up anchor.
And by the way, folks who just fabricate a tether from available slings are also using something that will likely break (or break biners) in a fall that has to be arrested by the tether, especially if the tether is short, e.g. a quickdraw.
With all these things in mind, for those who choose to use an installed daisy, there seem to be only two really good choices, each with their own advantages and disadvantages: (1) A purcell-prussic style tether made from 6mm cord and (2) the Sterling Chain Reactor.
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#33529 - 10/05/07 11:53 AM
Re: Better than the P.A.S.?
[Re: rg@ofmc]
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Dillbag
old hand
Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 999
Loc: Garden State
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Why is the "chain reactor" automatically better than the "p.a.s."?
_________________________
...anethum graveolens cucumis sativus!
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#33539 - 10/05/07 12:57 PM
Re: Better than the P.A.S.?
[Re: Dillbag]
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saxfiend
newbie
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Atlanta
(205.145.17.20)
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Why is the "chain reactor" automatically better than the "p.a.s."?
Unlike the PAS, the Chain Reactor is made of nylon (rather than dyneema). As I understand it, this will give it more of a dynamic response in a fall compared with the static nature of the PAS, and therefore less likely to cause catastrophic anchor failure. Someone can correct me if I'm off about this.
JL
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#33540 - 10/05/07 01:22 PM
Re: Better than the P.A.S.?
[Re: saxfiend]
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Dillbag
old hand
Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 999
Loc: Garden State
(198.16.3.247)
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If that's the case... That is cool, I prefer nylon daisy chains to the dyneema ones...
Plus if you use that stuff in the winter or with gloves, the nylon is fatter and easier to grab...
_________________________
...anethum graveolens cucumis sativus!
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#33543 - 10/05/07 02:33 PM
Re: Better than the P.A.S.?
[Re: Dillbag]
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rg@ofmc
site supporter
Registered: 12/24/99
Posts: 1697
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
(205.188.117.202)
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Why is the "chain reactor" automatically better than the "p.a.s."?
The PAS breaks under the load of a factor-2 fall. The extra tensile strength of dyneema apparently does not correspond to enough additional energy-absorbing capability. The drop tests that revealed the relatively poor energy-absorbing features of dyneema were done by Jim Ewing at Sterling, and the same series of tests revealed that nylon slings are better and won't break under a factor-two load. (This does not mean that the forces aren't very high; there is a chance that a biner could break.)
People tend to keep things like tethers for a long time, and tests have shown that over time, dyneema ends up no stronger than nylon, perhaps even less strong. So all in all, this is a case in which, if you are going to use a daisy tether, the Sterling version is the most rational choice.
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#33549 - 10/05/07 04:04 PM
Re: Better than the P.A.S.?
[Re: rg@ofmc]
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chip
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Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 1193
Loc: Delaware, U.S.A.
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I find a PAS to be very helpful, especially on long routes when trading leads or making many raps from hanging belays. This looks like a great upgrade for my dying PAS. Where did you find one?
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