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#36674 - 04/24/08 08:32 AM defusing time bombs
ianmanger
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So, by chance I ended up at an anchor mid-face on Tequila Mockingbird. We had climbed in from left (Scotch on the Rocks). This anchor consists of a couple of old bendy Lost Arrows and a pair of nuts held together with the usual tat. Now, tat is easy to deal with. A couple of other folks were passing through and definitely anxious about this setup. My question is, would an offer to replace this with a couple of decent bolts/chains set off a firestorm of indignation? Who does one talk to about this?

Assuming this could be overcome, I'd gladly pay for the hardware, but I've never placed a bolt in my life and would not want to start at the deep end. Anyone want to help here? I'm not aware that ASCA has an E.coast chapter.

Before I get flamed into oblivion, I am not advocating grid bolting, nor am I averse to a little adventure, so save it. However, I am uncomfortable to think that by ignoring this I might place others at risk.

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#36675 - 04/24/08 08:53 AM Re: defusing time bombs [Re: ianmanger]
Daniel
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Only the Mohonk Preserve can place new bolts at the Gunks; climbers are prohibited from doing so. So requests for bolted anchors have to be sent to the Preserve.

From the Preserve's climbing policy:

"In order to maintain the cliffs as far as possible in their natural state, however, the Preserve forbids all environmentally damaging climbing practices. These include trundling rocks, chipping holds, affixing new holds, cutting trees, and placing new bolts and pitons. The Preserve may, with consultation of the Land Stewardship Committee, add or replace permanent anchors if they improve climber safety. Replacement of such anchors may also minimize damage to vegetation / habitat, reduce visual clutter, and reduce maintenance cycles of existing fixed anchors."

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#36677 - 04/24/08 09:14 AM Re: defusing time bombs [Re: Daniel]
ianmanger
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Perfect. Thanks. I'll direct a request over there.


 Originally Posted By: Daniel
Only the Mohonk Preserve can place new bolts at the Gunks; climbers are prohibited from doing so. So requests for bolted anchors have to be sent to the Preserve.

From the Preserve's climbing policy:

"In order to maintain the cliffs as far as possible in their natural state, however, the Preserve forbids all environmentally damaging climbing practices. These include trundling rocks, chipping holds, affixing new holds, cutting trees, and placing new bolts and pitons. The Preserve may, with consultation of the Land Stewardship Committee, add or replace permanent anchors if they improve climber safety. Replacement of such anchors may also minimize damage to vegetation / habitat, reduce visual clutter, and reduce maintenance cycles of existing fixed anchors."

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#36678 - 04/24/08 09:32 AM Re: defusing time bombs [Re: ianmanger]
talus
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MP will not be placing any more bolts from what i was told
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#36680 - 04/24/08 09:54 AM Re: defusing time bombs [Re: talus]
ianmanger
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Thanks for the heads up. Maybe they would at least consent to replace those KBs. I dropped the Land Stewardship contact a note, will let you know what I find out.

ian


 Originally Posted By: talus
MP will not be placing any more bolts from what i was told

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#36684 - 04/24/08 10:25 AM Re: defusing time bombs [Re: ianmanger]
dalguard
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The twisted logic is this: only the Preserve can place or replace bolts but the Preserve absolutely won't place or replace any non-bolts. So if there's a tatty non-bolt anchor, it's ours to deal with, but in a non-bolt way.

Frankly, if there were pins and nuts there then it sounds like you could put in your own gear, clip it with your own slings, and clean it up when you left. Just because there's a fixed anchor doesn't mean you have to use it.

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#36685 - 04/24/08 10:50 AM Re: defusing time bombs [Re: dalguard]
ianmanger
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Agreed. There are adequate placements for a bomber _temporary_ anchor. Leaving in an uncontrolled, rapid and groundward direction on rappel once that temporary gear is removed particularly concerns me. Leaving additional backup gear is a solution, but something more permanent is preferable IMO.


 Originally Posted By: dalguard
The twisted logic is this: only the Preserve can place or replace bolts but the Preserve absolutely won't place or replace any non-bolts. So if there's a tatty non-bolt anchor, it's ours to deal with, but in a non-bolt way.

Frankly, if there were pins and nuts there then it sounds like you could put in your own gear, clip it with your own slings, and clean it up when you left. Just because there's a fixed anchor doesn't mean you have to use it.

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#36686 - 04/24/08 10:58 AM Re: defusing time bombs [Re: ianmanger]
Daniel
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 Originally Posted By: ianmanger
Leaving in an uncontrolled, rapid and groundward direction on rappel once that temporary gear is removed particularly concerns me. Leaving additional backup gear is a solution, but something more permanent is preferable IMO.


Before someone else says it (as I'm sure someone would): there's no need to have rappels at one's convenience. One can climb to the top and find a way down from there. Such is life in the wilderness of the Gunks.

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#36687 - 04/24/08 11:05 AM Re: defusing time bombs [Re: Daniel]
Architect
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climbing all the way to the top is scary and should be left to professional cliff climbers who only free climb and are good at doing things in the wild...
_________________________
-Karl - Looking for a clucking partner
www.genxclimbing.com

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#36689 - 04/24/08 11:48 AM Re: defusing time bombs [Re: Daniel]
ianmanger
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Daniel, Um . yes. that would be fine. Except that I joined people who had rappelled into that spot on their way down. yes, I suppose they could have set out on another line, if they had known about the poor anchor downstairs. It doesn't change the fact that an existing 'essentially permanent' (in a nothing-is-permanent sense) rappel anchor complete with rings and tat IS a time bomb. maybe it should be removed, period.

hey karl. you know I'm always scared. thats why you lead, bro :-)

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