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#38084 - 06/28/08 05:42 PM
future climbing Minnewaska
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climberdave
journeyman
Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 91
Loc: New York
(67.80.200.237)
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A show of force from climbers with articulate comments and interest in getting involved with the master plan rewrite would be important for those intested in the expansion of climbing to other areas in the park:
To: Persons Interested in Minnewaska State Park Preserve
Re: Public Information Meeting for the development of a Draft master plan for Minnewaska State Park Preserve
There will be two Public Information Meetings on the Draft Master Plan/Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) for Minnewaska State Park Preserve on Tuesday July 8 and Thursday July 10, 2008.
At this meeting you will be provided with a brief overview of the planning effort and the resources of the Park. The main purpose of this meeting, however, will be to listen to the Park users, and record the types of issues, impacts and alternatives that you would like addressed in the Draft Plan/DEIS, Park staff will be available at the meeting to answer questions and receive your comments.
The July 8th meeting will be held at SUNY New Paltz Building, Lecture Hall 100 from 6:30 PM to 9:30 PM.
The July 10th meeting will be held at Ellenville High School Auditorium from 6:30 PM to 9:30 PM
If you are not able to attend the meetings, you may provide written comments by August 11, 2008:
Mark Hohengasser
New York State Office of Parks Recreation and Historic Development
Empire State Plaza
Agency Building
Albany, NY 12238
Mark.hohengasser@oprhp.state.ny.us
Larry Wheelock - NY West Hudson Representative
New York - New Jersey Trail Conference
156 Ramapo Valley Road
Mahwah, New Jersey 07430-1199
Tel: 201-512-9348 Ext 16
Fax: 201-512-9012
Mobile: 973-650-3228
Email: wheelock@nynjtc.org
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#38086 - 06/28/08 07:02 PM
Re: future climbing Minnewaska
[Re: climberdave]
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Mike Rawdon
Site Supporter
Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 3490
Loc: Poughkeepsie
(69.121.98.114)
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Does the GCC plan on filing a comment???
It took the local swimming community a while, but they finally overcame the MSSP beaurocracy and they can now swim outside the miiscule beach area in lake Minne. The program IIRC is called S.W.I.M. - Swim Without Interference at Minnewaska. Perhaps the park would entertain a similar agreement under which climbers with a certain amount of credibility/credentials would be allowed broader access to the climbing terrain within the Park's boundaries. I suggest we call the initiative C.L.I.M.B. - Climb Lightly In Minnewaska Backcountry.
Edited by Mike Rawdon (06/28/08 07:32 PM)
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#38088 - 06/28/08 09:33 PM
Re: future climbing Minnewaska
[Re: Mike Rawdon]
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Terrie
enthusiast
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 214
(4.236.114.198)
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Brilliant suggestion Mike, and an excellent acronym!
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#38092 - 06/29/08 08:13 AM
Re: future climbing Minnewaska
[Re: Mike Rawdon]
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learningtolead
dilettante
Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 958
Loc: a wanna be kerhonkson-er
(71.169.32.205)
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I think you're making up regulations they might not even see as necessary since Peterskill doesn't have that kind of crap. I really don't think that swimming program is worth emulating.
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#38094 - 06/29/08 09:14 AM
Re: future climbing Minnewaska
[Re: learningtolead]
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Terrie
enthusiast
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 214
(4.236.114.180)
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I don't know about the swimming program, so have no idea, but I had heard a while back, that the conversation about climbing at the Palmaghatt was planned to be contingent on:
- having a volunteer SAR, since the Gardiner fire and rescue people couldn't be expected to get back there
- a backcountry sign-in log
- another item or two....I can't recall...grrrr, getting old...
Mike is right to ask where the GCC stands on this. No doubt, they will be representing the climbing community at the meeting, but it would be really great to hear from someone involved....
It's the weekend and maybe the people in the know are out on adventures, but if anyone knows the "official" stance," it would be nice to have it posted here.
I saw on the GCC website that they had a steering committee meeting scheduled for June, and I think that the date was like the 18th or something. Now the site lists the date for the July meeting. So, hopefully, they were aware of this issue for the June meeting, and discussed it.
The GCC does seem to have an understanding of how to run the diplomatic channels involved, and that is an important thing, I think.
FYI - I am not in favor of having to climb at a certain level because most likely that will mean I am out of the running, since I am leading only 5.5, following 5.8, and that's if it's not a sustained route. But I have a basic understanding of self-rescue and have some experience in backcountry climbing and hiking. I've backed off a number of climbs safely, never leaving so much as a sling(keep America clean!!!), and, most importantly, would be.....really pissed....if climbing in some of the other areas was closed to me because I ain't no hardman. GRRR!!!! Believe me, I would not stand for it, and you(not You, you. All those other you's) would see me out there.
I think the SAR thing makes sense, though people would have to understand that a rescue out in backcountry ain't a matter of dialing 911 and irritatedly wondering why the hell it was taking so long for help to arrive a half hour later....
One suggestion, maybe to be on the "allowed" list, a person would have to agree to accept responsibilities, such as expecting to get out on their own with a broken ankle. Perhaps a "Safety in Backcountry" sort of book could be suggested for those who might not understand, and the every so often workshop offered.
At any rate - I will write my letter to the address mentioned, and try to be succinct and show intent to be respectful toward the ecosystem. But I think it would be really great to have the community represented at these meetings by someone from the GCC.
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#38095 - 06/29/08 10:14 AM
Re: future climbing Minnewaska
[Re: Terrie]
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chip
Site Supporter
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 1136
Loc: Delaware, U.S.A.
(72.94.250.101)
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Unfortunately, and likely on purpose, the two meetings are on work nights for most of those that would come from out of town. Perhaps we will all write letters, but that is not how it usually goes. This is an opportunity for GCC to regain some momentum.
Th amount of available climbing in Minnewaska is huge, much of it with easy approaches from the state park parking areas, including Millbrook. At the most,I think that a self rescue course is all the requirement we should stand for. The law in NYS now excludes a land owner from liability on recreational injuries as long as there are no land improvements specificly made for that activity. That is all that needs be in place to put the responsibility back on the climber, where it belongs.
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#38096 - 06/29/08 10:32 AM
Re: future climbing Minnewaska
[Re: Terrie]
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Mim
crone
Registered: 01/27/00
Posts: 737
Loc: Gunks
(76.15.48.43)
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Terrie:
Sorry to say that all the climb at Gertrude's Nose are really hard - the 5.6 (with just a few climbs in this grade level) feel like 5.9 because it is so steep...
Moreover, since one has to rappel to access most of the climbs there, having good route finding experience is a must.
Placing bolts should absolutely be out of question.
I agree with Mike with setting up climbing standards - it would help with negotiating with NYS Parks. Moreover, the ecology there is very fragile and setting up standards would limit the amount of climbers that can go there.
I also like the idea of putting self-rescue skills as a pre-requisite...
_________________________
Mim
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#38097 - 06/29/08 11:24 AM
Re: future climbing Minnewaska
[Re: Mim]
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Terrie
enthusiast
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 214
(4.236.114.180)
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Mim - I have better route-finding skills than many of the people I have ever climbed with, so that isn't an issue for me. At any rate, as a follower, I can get up anything - I have prussiks and know how to use them....
The thing is - I really enjoy the adventure aspect in climbing, and that is what I have look for in the use of these referenced areas.
But I suppose if one had to become a 5.whatever leader in order to have access.....it might just provide a stubborn Taurus like myself the incentive to get better....
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